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nodle

nodle

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Yep that's right it's just called "Windows". Why? Because it's the last OS that Microsoft will make. Instead of coming out with all these different version of an OS why not just make one OS? It will be based off what everyone has always known windows, and a start menu. What Microsoft will do is just focus on one OS and release improvements to it to make it more secure/stable/bug fixes. They could even make money off of it like MAC does with their OS upgrades. Lets just focus on the best OS that can be made instead of changing stuff so often. What do you think?
 
umm.... I think they already pretty much do this... each release is built based on previous releases, more secure, trimmed down, etc, etc. You just don't want to see version numbers. Then again, you mention Mac, which does version theirs. sure it's been OS X for years, but do they have any cats left to name the next version after (cheetah, leopard, snow leopard, lion, tiger, etc). It may have been OS X, but it was updates just the same as Win 7, Win 8 and so forth.

As for the start menu, you need to get over it man. Maybe a configurable option, but it already is. The OS has to evolve and change with usage. The move is toward more mobility and touch interface, so the changes there were inevitable. My parents have used 8 now and after only a couple weeks have come to prefer the start screen to the older start button. They are not even on a touch screen device, which is where the start screen of 8 is far superior to the old, non-touch optimized start menu....

Further and most important of the "8" releases (win 8 pro, win 8 RT, WP8) is that all devices are running the same kernel, moving more toward one OS for all devices whether it be a full powered PC or a smartphone. That's the way things are headed and the path they need to stay on. There are a few devices already that are convertible, whether they be an ultrabook that wraps around until it's more of a tablet format, or a tablet that has a full keyboard dock to change to a laptop form factor when docked. Some of those even have additional battery and ports in the keyboard dock. As this continues it will move more toward phones with battery life and power to support just being docked into a tablet/laptop form factor dock to add more functionality.

 
As for the start menu' date=' you need to get over it man. Maybe a configurable option, but it already is. The OS has to evolve and change with usage. The move is toward more mobility and touch interface, so the changes there were inevitable. My parents have used 8 now and after only a couple weeks have come to prefer the start screen to the older start button. They are not even on a touch screen device, which is where the start screen of 8 is far superior to the old, non-touch optimized start menu....[/quote']
What exactly do your parents do with their computer though.

As for the start menu, I can't believe you support not having one. It's reappearance will be tooted as a "feature" by Microsoft when they try to win back what they've lost.

I completely agree with C Pav. The OS of a desktop doesn't have to be a clone (or even a twin) of a tablet or smartphone.
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What exactly do your parents do with their computer though.As for the start menu' date=' I can't believe you support not having one. It's reappearance will be tooted as a "feature" by Microsoft when they try to win back what they've lost.
I completely agree with C Pav. The OS of a desktop doesn't have to be a clone (or even a twin) of a tablet or smartphone.

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Have you tried Win 8. When I say tried, i'm talking you configured it and gave it an honest try for > 2 weeks. If not, then you have no idea.

My parents do work with the computer. Check email, write docs, make slideshows, etc.

You can say it shouldn't be a twin, but go look at the 'All-in-one' machines that everyone is making. They are touch screen and the start menu is not touch friendly. Trust me, I've tried it on touch screens long ago and recently.

The start "menu" has been changed. it still exists, hell, if you put your mouse in the lower left corner you get a "Start" prompt, but clicking it takes you back to the modern start screen. It shows tiles and has everything you need. You can rearrange it to have the most recently used items where you can quickly get to them. You have live tiles to quickly see if there's new items to be worked on or what the weather is like.

With a little bit of setup and giving it a chance, I feel it is a better solution that the start menu ever was, whether using touch input or a mouse and keyboard...
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So maybe I'm just not a typical user and don't understand the "normal" usage of the start menu. Does everyone really go to Start > All Programs > Some program folder > click the link to start a program (or for many programs there may be another level or two of folders before you get to the application you want to start?

I guess I've tried to avoid that much start menu navigation for years. I'd do one of many things to make programs more quickly accessible:

1) Pin programs to the task bar (previously used the quick start bar) - usually I only put my most frequently used apps here

2) Create shortcuts on the desktop - again mostly for frequently used programs

3) Pin items to the start menu, or increase the number of recent programs so that I have a longer list on the start menu of my most used programs so I'd have quick list without need of All Programs > XXXX > YYYY > ZZZZ

4) With those, this left only the most infrequently used applications to where I would have to go dig through the start menu (which I was avoiding at any cost for frequently used applications since it's a pain to dig trough the menu). This isn't really an item from the list, but I've numbered it to refer to it later

In Windows 8 I really don't miss the start menu at all because I didn't want to use it in the first place if I could help it:

1) I can still pin items to the task bar

2) I can still put shortcuts on my desktop

3) I don't have to do this, I can pin items to the STart screen where they are larger tiles and I can find them more quickly than when they were on the start menu. I also can have more items. This takes some management of removing the unwanted items from your start screen and organizing the remaining items as you want, but that is not difficult at all

4) For the few things I haven't pinned or created a shortcut for anywhere, I can still find them in a couple ways. The fast of these is to just bring up Search from the charm bar (Win + Q), start typing the name of the program I want and click on the shortcut from the list of what it finds. The alternative is to bring up the 'All apps' screen that shows everything installed, but this is more like hunting through the entire start menu so I much prefer to just do a quick search.

All in all, I guess I'm asking, what is it about the start menu that people really miss? I don't get it, I tried to avoid the thing before and now I just have better ways to get by completely without it.

 
I think you may be just looking at it from a personal view. When I talk about Windows 8 I think of the average user or the mass of normal usage people. Meaning you can't think about it how you use it. Everyone has certain ways of accessing their programs or going to the control panel etc. Most people are use to the Start button. I am sorry but we have all grown up on it and are use to it. Windows 8 was the first OS to remove it so it is a huge change for most people. People don't want to have to re-learn everything and don't like change. Their know how to access the things that they are use to. The whole pinning didn't come out till Vista. I use the pin feature. Way better than shortcuts and in turn a cleaner desktop. I love improvements to OS, I love speed/stability changes. But it's a fine line. Windows 8 was to large of a jump for most people. I know Microsoft wants to move people away from the Start button. But you need to gradually do it not just rip it out of the OS all the way. A nice option in the control panel and on the setup would had just been to have a check mark box to select if you want the start button back. It was in the betas but was removed on the final release. One simple line of code would had made the whole experience alot better. Look how many after market companies are making a killing off of selling start button replacement software.
 
I fully understand the needs of 1 person vs. the needs of a ton of people. I also fully understand that people do not like change. I deal with this every day in my job when customer A thinks something should behave like X and customer B may think the same should function like Y. Who is correct, which is the way it should be? Anyway, I'm fully aware. You too are here touting your personal opinion. Do you truly think there was no research on any of this, or user studies, and so forth. Sure maybe some don't like it, but to think there was no thought put into decisions and the effects would be a crude under-estimation.

I initially did not like Vista/7 because of minor UI changes in comparison to XP, but I got over them and would much rather use 7 than XP any day. You sir nodle were the same way if my memory serves. When I first started to use Win 8 on a desktop, I also didn't like a few things. It took me a couple days to get used to the start screen, using the charm bar for any app (i.e if you are in Netflix the Search charm will search Netflix, if you are at the desktop it will search your programs, etc). I took the time to organize and evaluate with an open mind and now I'd much prefer Win 8 w/out a start button over any previous version of Windows. This is putting aside all other improvements the OS upgrade offers.

When it comes to my opinion on the start button, of course it is based on my usage, that's all I really have to go on. Hence, my question to anyone on this discussion. Do you really love and use the start menu day in and day out, or do you try to avoid too much start menu navigation with pinned programs, desktop shortcuts, or the recent programs list that was on the start button? If you are doing any of these to get to frequently used apps more quickly, why would you miss the start button?

I'm not asking you to tell me what the masses think, because really what the masses think is what they've read. I've asked a few members now who have bashed Win 8 if they have even tried it and other than Nodle I've not seen any who bashed it claim any personal experience. What the masses say is just saying back what they read or what they've overheard 95% of the time. So my question is for each person here on an individual level, do you really like the start menu so much that you use it to get to every program?

 
@ndboarder. Shortcuts all the way. Every few months I clean up my desktop short cuts by putting them into a new folder an dating it, with the intent of organizing them later, but since win95 I never really have. I wanted to try win8, but haven't found the time. *shrug*. One of these days.

Having said that, what I want to do next is hook up my laptop to my tv, but the 15' cable is about 2 foot too short. Then I can do steam in the big screen mode. Right now, when I try to fit win8 into my style, from what I have heard on podcasts and read, makes me think I want a touchscreen to get the full benefits.

 
@ndboarder. Shortcuts all the way. Every few months I clean up my desktop short cuts by putting them into a new folder an dating it' date=' with the intent of organizing them later, but since win95 I never really have. I wanted to try win8, but haven't found the time. *shrug*. One of these days.Having said that, what I want to do next is hook up my laptop to my tv, but the 15' cable is about 2 foot too short. Then I can do steam in the big screen mode. Right now, when I try to fit win8 into my style, from what I have heard on podcasts and read, makes me think I want a touchscreen to get the full benefits.
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Thanks. Touch screens definitely give a little more benefit as far as navigation on the home screen, but it isn't terrible with a mouse/keyboard. It was probably a different thread where I mentioned my parents using it, and they are on older machines without touch. One laptop my dad uses was actually upgraded from XP.

If you are considering anything that would run and showcase all of win 8, I'd suggest looking at different Intel Clovertrail (Atom Z2760) processor devices. Better battery life and nice form factors. Acer Iconia and Samsung Ativ are a couple examples that are tablets with a keyboard dock that transform them more into a netbook form factor. I guess this would be a recommendation if you are looking for just a device to surf, email, Netflix, etc.

On the other hand, if you wanted something with touch and lots of horse power for full PC gaming or other tasks that might need more the Intel Core iX line, there's plenty of laptops and such out with touch screens these days. Personally on the higher end spectrum I'm a bit jealous of the new All-in-One PCs from either Dell or Lenovo with touch screens and 27" displays. Beat my 23" all in one from HP...
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