Xbox Gaming Discussion – Xbox Series X|S, Xbox One, Games & News
Har har har har...
So, if you have shitty internet, or actually sell games maybe you want a PS4.
This is all software stuff people, so it could change, only time will tell. Obviously a lot of people seem to think putting a disk into the console to play is better than just installing, playing without disc and being able to share simultaneously with another family member or access your games at a friends without a disk.
BUT Sony has said that DRM on its system is up to publishers. They've confirmed their 1st party releases (the minority) won't have any, but a few publishers have said their policies will match between consoles. Publishers have also said they are doing away with online access codes. Reading a bit into this, but this means they would have to implement their own system of sorts, and this likely won't be the same from publisher to publisher if they implement their own. So perhaps, all Microsoft has done is given a consistent set of rules to publishers to follow for the better? Again, time will tell, still 5 months of time for things to change or facts to further unfold outside of speculation thus far (or more perhaps for PS4 fans, since Sony has only said holiday Season at this point)
So, if you have shitty internet, or actually sell games maybe you want a PS4.
This is all software stuff people, so it could change, only time will tell. Obviously a lot of people seem to think putting a disk into the console to play is better than just installing, playing without disc and being able to share simultaneously with another family member or access your games at a friends without a disk.
BUT Sony has said that DRM on its system is up to publishers. They've confirmed their 1st party releases (the minority) won't have any, but a few publishers have said their policies will match between consoles. Publishers have also said they are doing away with online access codes. Reading a bit into this, but this means they would have to implement their own system of sorts, and this likely won't be the same from publisher to publisher if they implement their own. So perhaps, all Microsoft has done is given a consistent set of rules to publishers to follow for the better? Again, time will tell, still 5 months of time for things to change or facts to further unfold outside of speculation thus far (or more perhaps for PS4 fans, since Sony has only said holiday Season at this point)
Weaker system, check
$100 more expensive, check
Online authentication requirement per 24 hours, check
Used games screwed, check
Less value on Gold vs PSN Plus free games, check
Region locked, check
Requires Subscription for Entertainment services, check
Can't replace Hard Drive, check
External Power Brick, check
Larger System, check
$100 more expensive, check
Online authentication requirement per 24 hours, check
Used games screwed, check
Less value on Gold vs PSN Plus free games, check
Region locked, check
Requires Subscription for Entertainment services, check
Can't replace Hard Drive, check
External Power Brick, check
Larger System, check
The PS4 will be exactly like the PS3 as it is now. That means publishers can implement some kind of DRM on their games e.g. online passes. Unlike Microsoft, however, Sony will not facilitate this by making the PS4 always-online. So there are two immediate questions that spring to mind from this.
- How could publishers implement an authentication system for PS4 games? Are they limited to online passes? Does EA backtrack?
- Does the PS4 make it so unrealistic for publishers to pursue DRM that they we may see them pull back from this on the Xbox One? Could Sony’s decision be good news for Xbox fans?
1. Sony doesn't have to do anything. The PS4 has a network connection, so if a publisher wanted they could implement anything they want. They could do a check once a day, once a minute, once a week, or whatever they wanted to do and however they chose to implement it. Hence my comment of if they did pursue some form of this on the PS4 you'd have potentially different options from each publisher.
2. Maybe, really anything announced has been far from concrete or well explained. Like I said it's all software, so until the answers are crystal clear of what one can or cannot do, there's a lot of potential misinformation everywhere. Even if everyone's worst fears were realized and true, then it can all change, because there's still a lot of time between now and new consoles launching for software changes.
I'll bite though, how do you figure the Xbox One is a weaker system. I'm assuming you mean in hardware specs, which people always said the 360 was weaker than the PS3, but despite using DVDs and such the performance and graphics have been just as good. Then there's the fact that the Xbox One has the cloud computing abilities, you realize how incredibly huge amount of server power behind Xbox Live and other MS cloud offerings (Azure, Office, etc) are right? There was at least one publisher doing a Xbox One exclusive that flat out said what they were doing on the Xbox One couldn't be done on any other platform because of the unique cloud offerings available to developers.
Alright, let's get down to it then. It's been a long sleepless night and I find myself at work hours early, because if I laid around any longer I'd be sleeping through alarms.
First, Don Mattrick's comment about Xbox 360. Not a great message, I'll agree, but he did say if you have absolutely no Internet Access. Sure, people don't like the 24 hour check in, or let's re-phrase that properly to be you have to have been online something within 24 hours of when you want to play (assuming it isn't online multiplayer). How many people have no internet? Do you really need to have 50 MB internet to be able to phone home once every 24 hours? Nope!
Is there people this may effect? Yes! I've seen the articles, I know some people don't have internet, but really, can you find me a hard core gamer that doesn't any form of connection? If you travel, about any hotel will have WiFi, so again, do you really need it to be a terrific connection just to connect to Live to check in? The biggest one here is probably military. Then again, I've read where someone posted online, from a nuclear sub saying "hey I'm on a nuclear sub, what about me?" Well, apparently they must have internet on nuclear subs, so I'd guess they could possibly get connected for that call back home.
Ok, so why is there DRM? Oh NO, it's DRM. Sony doesn't have DRM - Oh WAIT?, WHAT? SONY DOES? Of course they fucking do! Can you just take your PS4 BD disc, make a copies and distribute them to your friends, of course you can't. Oh, and they left anything additional up to the publishers, so as I said before you may get one store from Publisher A, another from Publisher B and so on.
OK, enough about Sony. Why is there a check in process (I won't call it DRM, because both discs from Sony or MS will be right protected)? Take a read of the following link. From this I gather that, basically the licensing that will be used is the same in place today for XBLA or Games on Demand content. This comes from comments regarding it having potentially been a fully digital system (no Discs), but keeping them around since people don't like change (obvious from the amount of crazy complaints about the whole check in thing).
Alright then, we have XBLA/GoD licensing. Well this used to mean anyone could play it on my console and I could play it on anyone's console if I was signed in. There were two licenses with the purchase, one for the console and one for the user. BUT it's been made better (yeah, yeah, there's a 24 hour check in - which is software and they could change it, but I doubt they will). So how is it better? You can now share your game library with 10 "family" members, plus the whole giving it to a friend. I still don't think that the giving part of this has been made clear. Maybe it's a one time thing and your have given/sold your game forever, or maybe it's like the Nook LendMe books, where you can give the book to one person one time and they have X amount of time to read it, before it is returned to you the owner.
OK, so why is "family" in quotes. Well if you read the article, it becomes clear that your "family" is pretty much going to be 10 people of your choosing. So if I buy Call of Duty Ghosts, and one of my "family" member buys Destiny, they can play Call of Duty (if they can ever find a time I'm not already playing it). This is where the whole 24 hour check comes in people. Without it, and with allowing sharing of digital media, there would be nothing to stop all 10 family members from playing the game at any one time, or giving things out to people and leaving your console offline to continue playing a game you do not currently "have in your possession." Obviously it's digital so you can't possess it, but if it were a disk you couldn't let someone else play and keep playing, so this is what you get to allow this (awesome IMO) functionality.
I have my Xbox One and 6 launch titles on order. I could see myself having a long lost brother in the "family" to share in the joy, but alas he was long ago replaced by a blind sheep following the masses with Apple blinders, and too much time in WoW. Speaking of Apple, have you seen how much IOS 7 looks like an uglified version of Windows Phone?
Ok, Apple jab is out of the way.
Sso I'm saying what I've always been saying, the story for either console is not completely unfolded. Sony played the good guy, said no DRM, then later chose to let the cat out of the bag that it was up to developers (ok, really they said this before E3, but no one was listening then). Microsoft on the other hand needs to deliver a lot clearer message to get the actual story out as opposed to a lot of the speculation based on unclear comments. Thankfully the article above doesn't leave a lot to question in terms of why everything is basically being treated as digital (think Steam people, you all love Steam), and the new capabilities it lends.
You can read my previous post in regards to cloud computing. Huge plus for the Xbox One in terms of longevity, power and expandability. The one thing I don't think I've called out here is that at the time of the Xbox One reveal there were 15,000 servers running the Xbox Live service. By the time Xbox One launches it will be 20 times that at 300,000. I'll agree that services like Netflix really shouldn't be tied to gold membership at this point, but for your money you won't get a better experience in online gaming than Xbox Live.
Used GAMES!!! OMG!!! Wait, what, Microsoft isn't doing anything to prevent used games you say? Nope, they aren't, they've said it's entirely up to the publishers. Hey, that's the same as Sony, what the hell is everyone griping about? You got me, I sure the hell can't figure it out. The problem here is how thins have been announced and/or perceived. MS has been made out as the bad guy, and the publisher has to save you and allow used games. Sony is seen as the good guy, but the publisher could be the enemy and take the ability away without them doing anything about it. Bottom line, neither Sony nor Microsoft are doing anything to prevent used games, they've both left this in the hands of the publisher to decide whether it will work like it always has, whether they will charge a fee (either a fee to users, or a percentage from retailers), or whether they prevent it altogether.
RENTALS!!! Yeah, not really a story here for the Xbox One yet, but the one link below has some interesting hints at potential for it, possibility of first hand, could let others, who knows. Definitely possible. I like the idea of them offering a play all you want (Netflix of gaming), but I'm sure that will take a long time to get publishers on board with... As of now, they say it won't be supported at launch, but I'm guessing it will be fairly soon after. EDIT: Even if you can't rent, you can always just play a "family" members copy anyway...
Lastly, price. Yes the PS4 is $100 cheaper (assuming you don't want the camera that will cost you $60, making it only $40 cheaper). So, basically you are paying $100 for the Kinect and the additional capabilities of the Xbox. I realize not everyone wants a Kinect, or some paranoids think it is going to be monitoring their every move and word. Those with such concerns should not be on the internet at all, should not have any phone, or any computer for that matter. Basically they should live in a shack on a mountain with no running water or electricity, as any of the other devices have as much or more potential to be spying. That aside, the new Kinect is much more fine tuned, detecting movements of fingers, requiring less open space and having potential real use in non-novelty games, since they say it can use spine movements as a third analog stick if developers want. Either way, it's a hell of a lot more advanced than a camera that can track the blue glowsticks in a controller.
a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href=';http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/06/microsoft-defends-the-xbox-ones-licensing-used-game-policies/'http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/06/microsoft-defends-the-xbox-ones-licensing-used-game-policies//a
a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href=';http://m.winsupersite.com/xbox/sony-playstation-4-preview'http://m.winsupersite.com/xbox/sony-playstation-4-preview/a
First, Don Mattrick's comment about Xbox 360. Not a great message, I'll agree, but he did say if you have absolutely no Internet Access. Sure, people don't like the 24 hour check in, or let's re-phrase that properly to be you have to have been online something within 24 hours of when you want to play (assuming it isn't online multiplayer). How many people have no internet? Do you really need to have 50 MB internet to be able to phone home once every 24 hours? Nope!
Is there people this may effect? Yes! I've seen the articles, I know some people don't have internet, but really, can you find me a hard core gamer that doesn't any form of connection? If you travel, about any hotel will have WiFi, so again, do you really need it to be a terrific connection just to connect to Live to check in? The biggest one here is probably military. Then again, I've read where someone posted online, from a nuclear sub saying "hey I'm on a nuclear sub, what about me?" Well, apparently they must have internet on nuclear subs, so I'd guess they could possibly get connected for that call back home.
Ok, so why is there DRM? Oh NO, it's DRM. Sony doesn't have DRM - Oh WAIT?, WHAT? SONY DOES? Of course they fucking do! Can you just take your PS4 BD disc, make a copies and distribute them to your friends, of course you can't. Oh, and they left anything additional up to the publishers, so as I said before you may get one store from Publisher A, another from Publisher B and so on.
OK, enough about Sony. Why is there a check in process (I won't call it DRM, because both discs from Sony or MS will be right protected)? Take a read of the following link. From this I gather that, basically the licensing that will be used is the same in place today for XBLA or Games on Demand content. This comes from comments regarding it having potentially been a fully digital system (no Discs), but keeping them around since people don't like change (obvious from the amount of crazy complaints about the whole check in thing).
Alright then, we have XBLA/GoD licensing. Well this used to mean anyone could play it on my console and I could play it on anyone's console if I was signed in. There were two licenses with the purchase, one for the console and one for the user. BUT it's been made better (yeah, yeah, there's a 24 hour check in - which is software and they could change it, but I doubt they will). So how is it better? You can now share your game library with 10 "family" members, plus the whole giving it to a friend. I still don't think that the giving part of this has been made clear. Maybe it's a one time thing and your have given/sold your game forever, or maybe it's like the Nook LendMe books, where you can give the book to one person one time and they have X amount of time to read it, before it is returned to you the owner.
OK, so why is "family" in quotes. Well if you read the article, it becomes clear that your "family" is pretty much going to be 10 people of your choosing. So if I buy Call of Duty Ghosts, and one of my "family" member buys Destiny, they can play Call of Duty (if they can ever find a time I'm not already playing it). This is where the whole 24 hour check comes in people. Without it, and with allowing sharing of digital media, there would be nothing to stop all 10 family members from playing the game at any one time, or giving things out to people and leaving your console offline to continue playing a game you do not currently "have in your possession." Obviously it's digital so you can't possess it, but if it were a disk you couldn't let someone else play and keep playing, so this is what you get to allow this (awesome IMO) functionality.
I have my Xbox One and 6 launch titles on order. I could see myself having a long lost brother in the "family" to share in the joy, but alas he was long ago replaced by a blind sheep following the masses with Apple blinders, and too much time in WoW. Speaking of Apple, have you seen how much IOS 7 looks like an uglified version of Windows Phone?
Ok, Apple jab is out of the way.
Sso I'm saying what I've always been saying, the story for either console is not completely unfolded. Sony played the good guy, said no DRM, then later chose to let the cat out of the bag that it was up to developers (ok, really they said this before E3, but no one was listening then). Microsoft on the other hand needs to deliver a lot clearer message to get the actual story out as opposed to a lot of the speculation based on unclear comments. Thankfully the article above doesn't leave a lot to question in terms of why everything is basically being treated as digital (think Steam people, you all love Steam), and the new capabilities it lends.
You can read my previous post in regards to cloud computing. Huge plus for the Xbox One in terms of longevity, power and expandability. The one thing I don't think I've called out here is that at the time of the Xbox One reveal there were 15,000 servers running the Xbox Live service. By the time Xbox One launches it will be 20 times that at 300,000. I'll agree that services like Netflix really shouldn't be tied to gold membership at this point, but for your money you won't get a better experience in online gaming than Xbox Live.
Used GAMES!!! OMG!!! Wait, what, Microsoft isn't doing anything to prevent used games you say? Nope, they aren't, they've said it's entirely up to the publishers. Hey, that's the same as Sony, what the hell is everyone griping about? You got me, I sure the hell can't figure it out. The problem here is how thins have been announced and/or perceived. MS has been made out as the bad guy, and the publisher has to save you and allow used games. Sony is seen as the good guy, but the publisher could be the enemy and take the ability away without them doing anything about it. Bottom line, neither Sony nor Microsoft are doing anything to prevent used games, they've both left this in the hands of the publisher to decide whether it will work like it always has, whether they will charge a fee (either a fee to users, or a percentage from retailers), or whether they prevent it altogether.
RENTALS!!! Yeah, not really a story here for the Xbox One yet, but the one link below has some interesting hints at potential for it, possibility of first hand, could let others, who knows. Definitely possible. I like the idea of them offering a play all you want (Netflix of gaming), but I'm sure that will take a long time to get publishers on board with... As of now, they say it won't be supported at launch, but I'm guessing it will be fairly soon after. EDIT: Even if you can't rent, you can always just play a "family" members copy anyway...
Lastly, price. Yes the PS4 is $100 cheaper (assuming you don't want the camera that will cost you $60, making it only $40 cheaper). So, basically you are paying $100 for the Kinect and the additional capabilities of the Xbox. I realize not everyone wants a Kinect, or some paranoids think it is going to be monitoring their every move and word. Those with such concerns should not be on the internet at all, should not have any phone, or any computer for that matter. Basically they should live in a shack on a mountain with no running water or electricity, as any of the other devices have as much or more potential to be spying. That aside, the new Kinect is much more fine tuned, detecting movements of fingers, requiring less open space and having potential real use in non-novelty games, since they say it can use spine movements as a third analog stick if developers want. Either way, it's a hell of a lot more advanced than a camera that can track the blue glowsticks in a controller.
a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href=';http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/06/microsoft-defends-the-xbox-ones-licensing-used-game-policies/'http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/06/microsoft-defends-the-xbox-ones-licensing-used-game-policies//a
a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href=';http://m.winsupersite.com/xbox/sony-playstation-4-preview'http://m.winsupersite.com/xbox/sony-playstation-4-preview/a
First off, calm down man. Nothing to lose sleep over. half these post are to get a rise out of you anyways. It comes down to this people will buy what the want to buy. Do I hate you for buying an xbox? No. Will I buy an xbox? Who know probably. If I had to choose right now at a store, I would probably pick a ps4 personally. But that's just me. It comes down to playing the game, which we both can do on either system and have fun with it. I love my xbox 360 over my ps3. Way better system. None of us can see in the future, so we don't know what the future holds. I hope the best for both companies. Let just hope some good games come out. Bring back the "Fun" factor is what I am looking for. No hard feeling ndboarder.
Hmm... the same post in two threads... anyway, you can read my other response, but I was actually pretty calm at the time of the above writing, given I got no sleep and was just killing time at work. All capitals and punctuations were for effect, to draw peoples attention to facts that have been left out in your pro-PS / anti-Xbox postings (and overlooked by a lot of the public or gaming sites looking to make sensationalized news stories). yeah, now you need internet, but you already have it, and if you do have an Xbox your ability to share with friends is above and beyond the sharing abilities on the PS4 given you can share digitally across distance without needing to meet up to swap or ship a disc. Granted this is limited to 10, but how many people really have more than 10 family/friends that they share games with routinely.
Wow no online passes on ps4.
Gamasutra - PS4 Disallows Online Passes.
blockquote class="ipsBlockquote"
We've already come right out and said we're not going to allow online pass. And the word "allow" is key there. Specifically with online, with PS+ requiring a charge to play online, we would not want any publisher [to charge.]
In general, we're all businesses. Sony or Microsoft is never going to be able to tell EA or Activision exactly what they can do. What we like to say at PlayStation is that we set the precedent. The way we are approaching this is that we want this to be extremely consumer-friendly, extremely retailer-friendly, and extremely publisher-friendly. My personal opinion is that it's hard for me to believe that any major publisher is going to put an extra set of used DRM onto game titles because that wouldn't put them in a good spot, right?
/blockquote
a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href=';http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/194150/Further_clarification_on_Sonys_DRM_policies_No_more_online_pass.php'http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/194150/Further_clarification_on_Sonys_DRM_policies_No_more_online_pass.php/a
Gamasutra - PS4 Disallows Online Passes.
blockquote class="ipsBlockquote"
We've already come right out and said we're not going to allow online pass. And the word "allow" is key there. Specifically with online, with PS+ requiring a charge to play online, we would not want any publisher [to charge.]
In general, we're all businesses. Sony or Microsoft is never going to be able to tell EA or Activision exactly what they can do. What we like to say at PlayStation is that we set the precedent. The way we are approaching this is that we want this to be extremely consumer-friendly, extremely retailer-friendly, and extremely publisher-friendly. My personal opinion is that it's hard for me to believe that any major publisher is going to put an extra set of used DRM onto game titles because that wouldn't put them in a good spot, right?
/blockquote
a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href=';http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/194150/Further_clarification_on_Sonys_DRM_policies_No_more_online_pass.php'http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/194150/Further_clarification_on_Sonys_DRM_policies_No_more_online_pass.php/a
Have you read anything I post? I'll just leave this for you, but again, the PS4 "no DRM" is just a PR play they made.
a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href=';http://www.edge-online.com/news/e3-2013-drm-free-ps4-is-a-pr-play-expect-similar-policies-across-both-consoles-say-sources/'http://www.edge-online.com/news/e3-2013-drm-free-ps4-is-a-pr-play-expect-similar-policies-across-both-consoles-say-sources//a
a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href=';http://www.edge-online.com/news/e3-2013-drm-free-ps4-is-a-pr-play-expect-similar-policies-across-both-consoles-say-sources/'http://www.edge-online.com/news/e3-2013-drm-free-ps4-is-a-pr-play-expect-similar-policies-across-both-consoles-say-sources//a
